Secrets 4 - Tasteful password manager for Mac and iOS

@mailia keep in mind that Paulo is a single developer, I'd say it's super impressive what he pulls off as a one-man band, and given that Secrets 4 _is_ a major update adding non trivial features like Shared Vaults it's no more than logical IMHO that there was a slowdown in terms of updates. I'm sure you can expect the regular flow of updates to resume again now that this huge update is out. Personally I think Secret 4 is definitely worth the money, not only for the features but also for supporting an independent developer who is dedicated to creating a safe and awesome password manager you can trust and know is not encumbered with pressure from big Co's or VC's. As a disclaimer I'm a small indie developer myself and know Paulo well personally, but that does mean I can see how motivated he is and how he cares.

@alexandergriekspoor I'm not seeing the part where Secrets 4 is worth the money, considering that I am asked to pay 70€ on top of the 40€ that I spent on Secrets just two months ago. And that amount of money doesn't even give me the "non-trivial features like Shared Vaults", since the ask for shared vaults is 140€. That's what, about three years worth of 1Password, which is also not cheap? I'm also not convinced that Paulo is "dedicated to creating a safe and awsome password manager". He's been selling Secrets 3 while knowing that he's not going to support any more. And when asked about how long he's gonna support it, he refused to give any kind of an answer. And naturally, no refunds were offered either. I'm certainly not seeing anything that even remotely resembles "dedication". I wrote about my thoughts on the product in more detail here: https://burakku.com/blog/secrets...

@mailia To be honest I think a lot of what you feel is unfair comes from the fact that you happened to buy the previous version of Secrets only two months before a new version came out. I definitely see how that's super frustrating, at the same time that's the downside of the major update business model, just like how it can be very painful to buy say a new Macbook now and Apple releasing a new model two months later, that's not great of course :-( At the same time, a small developer can also not just say "well let's stop selling the current app for the next two months". And neither does Apple with its Macbooks, nor do they offer refunds. In general, I'm sure Paulo will still support you and Secrets 3, even if you decide not to buy Secrets 4, but again as he's a single developer, when you do have a major release coming out it's usually pretty overwhelming for a few weeks, so I'm not surprised that he has taken longer to reply than normal. I'm sure he'll get back to you. Also, in the end of the day, if a small developer doesn't continue shipping updates and keep on developing new versions there's no business at all, which means no support either. So in that sense I'd argue that the arrival of Secrets 4 is also good news for Secrets 3 users as it will allow Paulo to continue to be there for all Secrets users, whether on the new or old version. And as a final note, this all is one of the reasons why developers are switching to subscriptions, because it removes the need to group things in major updates and move towards a continuous model without the kind of break you have experienced. But that's a whole different story on itself.

@alexandergriekspoor It wasn't that I just coincidentally happened to buy Secrets just before a new update, I expected it. Except that the update, which was being continuously advertised online, was not an update. It was a paid upgrade. A completely different software. And everyone who bought Secrets waiting for that update were left stranded. The MacBook comparison is poor because Apple does not advertise new MacBook updates that they then rugpull from users that expected them. Also, I wish Secrets 3 had been a subscription, because then I could've just cancelled my subscription and moved onto a different piece of software after this. It certainly would've been cheaper than the 20€/month I paid now.

@mailia fair enough, I do think in a way you were also caught in the transition from the more classic major update model to a subscription model, and maybe there's something that could have been more clearly communicated indeed. As traditionally Secrets followed to then-common major update model from the beginning, a jump from 1 to 2, 2 to 3, etc would always imply a paid upgrade. Nowadays with subscriptions this has become almost the exception to the rule, so indeed a kind blame you for having not realised this. Still, zooming out, I think Secrets remains a product worth paying for, if only because I know Paulo will take this on board in a way most larger companies will never do.

@pfandrade_ will we see it soon?

@e2na Indeed that feature does not exist. I've played with it before but found it would cause more frustration than good. Websites can be very creative in how they implement their sign-up forms leading to both false positives and negatives. Creating the item manually also gives you an opportunity to ​fill-in all the fields, add tags, custom icon, etc. I'll count your +1 to reconsider this in the future.

@tariq2305 hello Tariq, Secrets was released 7 years ago. This is the first paid upgrade ever. Secrets 3 will indeed be removed from sale soon (Apple actually demands this). But I'll still be supporting for some time (existing users will still get updates). New features will likely only be present on Secrets 4. There's also a 50% discount for existing users today. If you don't feel it's time to upgrade you'll still have a 20% discount in the future.

@pfandrade_ Since I had no choice but to upgrade, even though it was a forced, paid upgrade, I really didn't like the way you guys handled it, especially as I am a premium customer. My other concern is that the app is buggy. It feels like you rushed the production release instead of fixing bugs during the beta release. Consider other companies, even small startups like Mimestream; they spent three years in beta to ensure the app was not buggy. They only implemented a paid subscription once they reached the 1.0 milestone. I upgraded immediately. Returning to the subject of bugs, there are too many, and these are not acceptable for a password manager app: When I use face scan to open the app, it leaves me with a blank screen and a back button. Forced popup notifications block the UI. If I have already paid for a lifetime subscription, it's annoying that the popup keeps showing up every time and I can't dismiss it, which blocks the UI. This is particularly frustrating because it happens every time on launch, and the same goes for other notifications. Can't you simply add this to user defaults and remind only after 3 days, then 7 days, then 14 days? If already paid, you should add a user default and not show this popup again. There are many other UI bugs in the app which make it uncomfortable to use. I'm very disappointed that you guys rushed without doing extensive beta testing.

@freeshare indeed I'm seeing some issues with imports and will fix as soon as possible. Here's how you can get a refund: https://support.apple.com/en-us/...

@pfandrade_ Thank you, sorry I asked for a refund, I can't accept to pay 50€ for a product that doesn't work and that will be corrected "as soon as possible".

@freeshare sure. Hope to win back your business in the future.

@richinapps this is definitely something I intend to work on! Honestly I'm hoping Apple announces a Passkeys API (similar to Password AutoFIll) at this WWDC. One issue with storing passkeys on a password manager without fully integrating with iOS/macOS is that there's no way to "copy paste" a passkey to login into an app. So, even more than Password AutoFill, a Passkeys integration would be very welcome.

@ruby_smith01 ❤️

@motiondock thank you ❤️!

@ray_mond3 because there's a nasty issue with the Keychain on macOS 12 that requires a restart every time your Mac goes to sleep to unlock Secrets: https://developer.apple.com/foru... Secrets 4 was always meant to be compatible with Monterey (and aside from that issue, it still is). I have an open TSI with Apple and I'm hoping they can fix it. If they do, I'll drop the deployment target to macOS 12 immediately.

@ray_mond3 did you alter the Info.plist to run on 12? Let your Mac sleep for more than 15 minutes. I was able to reproduce this issue on at least three different Macs running Monterey (and also had a bunch of reports during the beta).

@pfandrade_ Odd. I have no issues with sleep and MacOS 12. I just tried and waited a bit over 15 min. Secrets launched fine, logged in fine. Its been in sleep for hours, never had an issue. 12.6.6, M1 Air.

@pfandrade_ No alterations to any plists. No alterations to default sleep mode. The Air is basically box stock and just runs without any hic ups other than what we have learned to expect from Apple and OS releases. Secrets has always been fine.

@ray_mond3 the issue I'm talking about is with Secrets 4 and the way it uses the Keychain (it uses features Secrets 3 doesn't use). Secrets 3 works fine on Monterey.